Elvis
19.01.05, 10:23
Also entweder ich bin blind oder es gibt tatsächlich noch keinen richtigen Forschungsthread.
Egal. Jetzt isser ja da. :D
Und ich beginne mit einer recht aufschlussreichen Post aus dem Paradoxforum bezgl. Forschungsgeschwindigkeit. Insbesondere die Wichtigkeit der letzten Komponente mancher Technologien, war mir bisher nicht bewusst.
Each technology consists of 5 parts which have to be researched one after the other. Each of these parts is linked to a certain field of science (chemistry, electronics, rocketry, etc.) and has a difficulty (usually from 3 to 10). Sometimes the last of the 5 parts is called “….Test” or “….Process Development” or something similar. In this case the research time for the last part only is doubled (effectively making it a 6 part technology). Unfortunately you can only see this after having started research.
Each tech team has a skill level and one or more fields of expertise matching the fields of science from the technologies. Both (skill level and matching fields of expertise) have an influence on the speed of research.
Matching fields of expertise: Each match halves the research time for this particular part of the technology.
Blueprints: Each blueprint halves the research time for the whole technology. If you have matched fields of expertise AND blueprints, the research time for the parts having a match is quartered.
Each part of the technology is first fully completed before the next part starts. So any excess research progress in the day which finishes a part (to 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% and of course 100%) is lost. This is important to mention, since it is the cause of rounding errors and probably some mismatch between the formula (which I don’t know) and the effective research time. It is also the cause for some minor inconsistencies in the tables below. If anybody has the time to come up with something more precise, he/she is highly welcome. However I believe for the normal gaming the tables below should give enough info.
Research time (in days) with matching skill level (i.e. a skill level 5 team researches a part of a technology with difficulty 5) And WITHOUT matching field of expertise.
Lvl 3: 37
Lvl 4: 40
Lvl 5: 42
Lvl 6: 44
Lvl 7: 46
Lvl 8: 47
Lvl 9: 49
Lvl10: 50
This base time is modified by the difference between difficulty and skill level (=skill level-difficulty) as follows in cumulative days (so -3 would be an effective +12); (I’m pretty sure there is a formula behind it with some integers, so there are rounding errors when giving full days, but as already mentioned it should suffice for planning research):
-7: +9
-6: +8
-5: +7
-4: +6
-3: +5
-2: +4
-1: +3
0: 0
+1: -3
+2: -3
+3: -2
+4: -2
+5: -2
+6: -2
Research efficiency modifier due to techs is a corresponding time modifier (i.e.: + 5% means each part takes 5% less time to research, so a part of a tech which really takes 30 days without the 5%, takes 29 days with the modifier (since the 0,5 days are lost, however it is not very exact with my table, so it can be +/- 1 day). The modifier applies to each part separately. Btw. I didn’t find an effect for the ministers giving research bonus (I just checked Todt of Germany).
An example calculation for Germany in ’36 (they have a +5% Research modifier due to tech) and Basic Machine tools (a ’36 tech):
Chemistry 5
Industrial Engineering 5
Industrial Engineering 5
Industrial Engineering 6
Industrial Engineering 7 (doubled)
Now let’s IG Farben do the job: Skill 9 and all fields of expertise match:
1.Part: 42 days base – 10 days for higher skill level = 32 days, halved for matching fields = 16 days, -5% = 15 days (could also be 16 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
2.Part: 42 days base – 10 days for higher skill level = 32 days, halved for matching fields = 16 days, -5% = 15 days (could also be 16 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
3.Part: 42 days base – 10 days for higher skill level = 32 days, halved for matching fields = 16 days, -5% = 15 days (could also be 16 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
4.Part: 44 days base – 8 days for higher skill level = 36 days, halved for matching fields = 19 days, -5% = 17 days (could also be 18 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
5.Part: 46 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 40 days, doubled for being a “…Process” tech and than again halved for matching fields = 40 days, -5% = 38 days (could also be 39 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
Total time: 100 days (so when starting on 01.01.36, you will be finished on 11.04.36
Now let’s have this done by Rheinmetal: Skill 7, only chemistry matches:
1.Part: 42 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 36 days, halved for matching fields = 18 days, -5% = 17 days (could also be 18 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
2.Part: 42 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 36 days, -5% = 34 days (could also be 35 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
3.Part: 42 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 36 days, -5% = 34 days (could also be 35 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
4.Part: 44 days base – 3 days for higher skill level = 41 days, -5% = 39 days
5.Part: 46 days base – 0 days for higher skill level = 46 days, doubled for being a “…Process” tech = 92 days, -5% = 87 days (could also be 88 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
Total time: 211 days (so when starting on 01.01.36, you will be finished on 02.08.36
General things to learn:
1.) First look at as many matching fields as possible. It is always better to have matching fields than to have high skill level.
2.) Consider that sometimes the last part of a tech counts double when looking for the absolute number of matching fields.
3.) Then look at skill levels; the higher the better.
4.) It is always nice to have blueprints.
Researching ahead of time (information gathered from this board and not tested myself):
You get a cumulative 0,15% penalty per day for researching ahead of time. The cap for this penalty is at 90%. The relevant time for a tech is always 01.01. of the corresponding year. So a 1938 technology started at 01.01.37 would get a 360*0,15% = 54% penalty for the first day, a 53,85% penalty for the second day and so on until you reach 01.01.38 when you don’t get any penalty for the remaining research of this tech anymore.
Effect of Rocket Test Sites:
Rocket test sites dramatically reduce the research times for the rocketry techs. The size of the test site has an influence at the reduction. It also reduces considerably the effects of skills (in the below example, at site size 6, a skill level 3 team only takes 1 day longer than a lvl. 8 team) and also the effect of the rocketry field of expertise. As an example, I have researched a difficulty 8 tech (without any other research modifiers) with skill lvl. 8 teams (results in days):
rocketry site size / without rocketry field of expertise / with rocketry field of expertise
size 0 / 47d / 24d
size 1 / 28d / 18d
size 2 / 20d / 14d
size 3 / 16d / 12d
size 4 / 13d / 10d
size 5 / 11d / 9d
size 6 / 9d / 8d
size 7 / 8d / 7d
What we can see is, that starting from size 5 onwards, the differences are rather small. Blueprints will still half the time.
Effect of Nuclear Reactors:
Nuclear Reactors also dramatically reduce the research times for the nuclear techs (both). The size of the reactor has an influence at the reduction. It also reduces considerably the effects of skills (in the below example, at site size 5, a skill level 3 team only takes 1 day longer than a lvl. 9 team) and also the effect of the nuclear fields of expertise. As an example, I have researched a difficulty 10 tech (without any other research modifiers) with skill lvl. 9 teams (results in days):
nuclear reactor size / without nuclear field of expertise / with nuclear field of expertise
size 0 / 53d / 27d
size 1 / 32d / 20d
size 2 / 23d / 16d
size 3 / 18d / 14d
size 4 / 15d / 12d
size 5 / 13d / 10d
size 6 / 11d / 9d
size 7 / 10d / 8d
What we can see is the same as for rocketry test sites, that starting from size 5 onwards, the differences are rather small. Blueprints will again half the time.
As a summary for both, we can say, that the biggest differences are till lvl.3, effectivly removing two thirds of the research time without matching fields of expertise or half of the research time with matching fields of expertise.
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182049
Egal. Jetzt isser ja da. :D
Und ich beginne mit einer recht aufschlussreichen Post aus dem Paradoxforum bezgl. Forschungsgeschwindigkeit. Insbesondere die Wichtigkeit der letzten Komponente mancher Technologien, war mir bisher nicht bewusst.
Each technology consists of 5 parts which have to be researched one after the other. Each of these parts is linked to a certain field of science (chemistry, electronics, rocketry, etc.) and has a difficulty (usually from 3 to 10). Sometimes the last of the 5 parts is called “….Test” or “….Process Development” or something similar. In this case the research time for the last part only is doubled (effectively making it a 6 part technology). Unfortunately you can only see this after having started research.
Each tech team has a skill level and one or more fields of expertise matching the fields of science from the technologies. Both (skill level and matching fields of expertise) have an influence on the speed of research.
Matching fields of expertise: Each match halves the research time for this particular part of the technology.
Blueprints: Each blueprint halves the research time for the whole technology. If you have matched fields of expertise AND blueprints, the research time for the parts having a match is quartered.
Each part of the technology is first fully completed before the next part starts. So any excess research progress in the day which finishes a part (to 20%, 40%, 60%, 80% and of course 100%) is lost. This is important to mention, since it is the cause of rounding errors and probably some mismatch between the formula (which I don’t know) and the effective research time. It is also the cause for some minor inconsistencies in the tables below. If anybody has the time to come up with something more precise, he/she is highly welcome. However I believe for the normal gaming the tables below should give enough info.
Research time (in days) with matching skill level (i.e. a skill level 5 team researches a part of a technology with difficulty 5) And WITHOUT matching field of expertise.
Lvl 3: 37
Lvl 4: 40
Lvl 5: 42
Lvl 6: 44
Lvl 7: 46
Lvl 8: 47
Lvl 9: 49
Lvl10: 50
This base time is modified by the difference between difficulty and skill level (=skill level-difficulty) as follows in cumulative days (so -3 would be an effective +12); (I’m pretty sure there is a formula behind it with some integers, so there are rounding errors when giving full days, but as already mentioned it should suffice for planning research):
-7: +9
-6: +8
-5: +7
-4: +6
-3: +5
-2: +4
-1: +3
0: 0
+1: -3
+2: -3
+3: -2
+4: -2
+5: -2
+6: -2
Research efficiency modifier due to techs is a corresponding time modifier (i.e.: + 5% means each part takes 5% less time to research, so a part of a tech which really takes 30 days without the 5%, takes 29 days with the modifier (since the 0,5 days are lost, however it is not very exact with my table, so it can be +/- 1 day). The modifier applies to each part separately. Btw. I didn’t find an effect for the ministers giving research bonus (I just checked Todt of Germany).
An example calculation for Germany in ’36 (they have a +5% Research modifier due to tech) and Basic Machine tools (a ’36 tech):
Chemistry 5
Industrial Engineering 5
Industrial Engineering 5
Industrial Engineering 6
Industrial Engineering 7 (doubled)
Now let’s IG Farben do the job: Skill 9 and all fields of expertise match:
1.Part: 42 days base – 10 days for higher skill level = 32 days, halved for matching fields = 16 days, -5% = 15 days (could also be 16 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
2.Part: 42 days base – 10 days for higher skill level = 32 days, halved for matching fields = 16 days, -5% = 15 days (could also be 16 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
3.Part: 42 days base – 10 days for higher skill level = 32 days, halved for matching fields = 16 days, -5% = 15 days (could also be 16 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
4.Part: 44 days base – 8 days for higher skill level = 36 days, halved for matching fields = 19 days, -5% = 17 days (could also be 18 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
5.Part: 46 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 40 days, doubled for being a “…Process” tech and than again halved for matching fields = 40 days, -5% = 38 days (could also be 39 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
Total time: 100 days (so when starting on 01.01.36, you will be finished on 11.04.36
Now let’s have this done by Rheinmetal: Skill 7, only chemistry matches:
1.Part: 42 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 36 days, halved for matching fields = 18 days, -5% = 17 days (could also be 18 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
2.Part: 42 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 36 days, -5% = 34 days (could also be 35 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
3.Part: 42 days base – 6 days for higher skill level = 36 days, -5% = 34 days (could also be 35 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
4.Part: 44 days base – 3 days for higher skill level = 41 days, -5% = 39 days
5.Part: 46 days base – 0 days for higher skill level = 46 days, doubled for being a “…Process” tech = 92 days, -5% = 87 days (could also be 88 for other cases, depends on the rounding)
Total time: 211 days (so when starting on 01.01.36, you will be finished on 02.08.36
General things to learn:
1.) First look at as many matching fields as possible. It is always better to have matching fields than to have high skill level.
2.) Consider that sometimes the last part of a tech counts double when looking for the absolute number of matching fields.
3.) Then look at skill levels; the higher the better.
4.) It is always nice to have blueprints.
Researching ahead of time (information gathered from this board and not tested myself):
You get a cumulative 0,15% penalty per day for researching ahead of time. The cap for this penalty is at 90%. The relevant time for a tech is always 01.01. of the corresponding year. So a 1938 technology started at 01.01.37 would get a 360*0,15% = 54% penalty for the first day, a 53,85% penalty for the second day and so on until you reach 01.01.38 when you don’t get any penalty for the remaining research of this tech anymore.
Effect of Rocket Test Sites:
Rocket test sites dramatically reduce the research times for the rocketry techs. The size of the test site has an influence at the reduction. It also reduces considerably the effects of skills (in the below example, at site size 6, a skill level 3 team only takes 1 day longer than a lvl. 8 team) and also the effect of the rocketry field of expertise. As an example, I have researched a difficulty 8 tech (without any other research modifiers) with skill lvl. 8 teams (results in days):
rocketry site size / without rocketry field of expertise / with rocketry field of expertise
size 0 / 47d / 24d
size 1 / 28d / 18d
size 2 / 20d / 14d
size 3 / 16d / 12d
size 4 / 13d / 10d
size 5 / 11d / 9d
size 6 / 9d / 8d
size 7 / 8d / 7d
What we can see is, that starting from size 5 onwards, the differences are rather small. Blueprints will still half the time.
Effect of Nuclear Reactors:
Nuclear Reactors also dramatically reduce the research times for the nuclear techs (both). The size of the reactor has an influence at the reduction. It also reduces considerably the effects of skills (in the below example, at site size 5, a skill level 3 team only takes 1 day longer than a lvl. 9 team) and also the effect of the nuclear fields of expertise. As an example, I have researched a difficulty 10 tech (without any other research modifiers) with skill lvl. 9 teams (results in days):
nuclear reactor size / without nuclear field of expertise / with nuclear field of expertise
size 0 / 53d / 27d
size 1 / 32d / 20d
size 2 / 23d / 16d
size 3 / 18d / 14d
size 4 / 15d / 12d
size 5 / 13d / 10d
size 6 / 11d / 9d
size 7 / 10d / 8d
What we can see is the same as for rocketry test sites, that starting from size 5 onwards, the differences are rather small. Blueprints will again half the time.
As a summary for both, we can say, that the biggest differences are till lvl.3, effectivly removing two thirds of the research time without matching fields of expertise or half of the research time with matching fields of expertise.
http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=182049